Ep. 114 Joel Sopp from Socially Acceptable Marketing

Speaker 0:01
In the blue corner weighing in at a solid 255 pounds with a professional record of 25 viral social media clients 38 recommendations and five starring roles coming to us from the city that rhymes with fun. Please welcome Joe saw Bob and his opponent in the red corner weighing in at, excuse me. Hailing from the infamous Moose Jaw Saskatchewan, rated as the best rank for rank Local Business SEO marketer with 52. top of the page rankings 38 of them coming by the way of get found participants, and only for fourth place or lower rankings. None other than McGraw love. Now, for the 1000s in attendance, and the millions watching around the world. Let’s get ready to rumble.

Barb 1:21
Welcome to The Secret Life of local Show. I’m your host, Barb McGrath, Google girl and founder of the Get found for local program. But today, we have a treat for you put down those phones pop in your ear earbuds. And let’s do this the ultimate showdown for local business, Google, or social media? How is a business owner to know? Today we’re gonna go toe to toe with Joel SOP from socially acceptable marketing, to finally answer the chicken and the egg question for every small business. Can I attract more customers with Google or social media? Joel, I’m going to be a gracious host, and let you take the first swing.

Joel 2:09
Thank you so much, Barb, I really appreciate that. It is a very much a chicken and egg question, which is more important. Is it the social media marketing? Or is it the Google presence that you have and people finding you on Google? Those are the keywords the short tail keywords the longtail keywords? Or is it about people finding you with hashtags on social media, which is most important, and a lot of people really struggle with trying to see their social presence being really robust. And with Facebook and Instagram, making it a pay to play environment that really makes the small business owners struggle because not everyone has a huge robust budget to be able to be spreading every single post with even five or 10 or $50 through of the entire social media atmosphere. And then you have to consider where does my customer spend their time on what social platform like where does my business need to be? Yeah, do I have to be everywhere?

Barb 3:10
Absolutely. And you know, the other consideration there is time? How much time does it take to be on each platform? How much time does it take to run that Google Ad post on Google post on all these different social channels? So there’s a time and a budget aspect? So when you’re working with your clients in socially acceptable marketing, how do you counsel them to make the choice between the two?

Joel 3:36
Well, the most important part is to hyper target on who their customer actually is. Because when they understand who their customer is, they get to really delve into where their customer spends their time, okay. And when they find a where their customer spends their time, they can find out which platform based on the demographics of who uses that platform. They’re to find out other mobile device, so they still an older client that’s on a laptop or a desktop that’s using Facebook still, or they tick talker. So there’s so many different platforms and so many different demographics to consider. So it’s very important to know and hyper target who your ideal client is, whether it’s Google, or whether it’s social media.

Barb 4:19
So I think that’s a fantastic lead in so when you’re talking about hyper targeting, you’re really talking about zoning in on who their ideal customer is, or who their target audience is. Can you think of an example though of a target audience that isn’t using Google when they want to solve a problem?

Joel 4:37
Hmm, that is a great question.

Barb 4:41
So I’m 100% i 100%. agree with you that when we’re looking at the social channels, you know, if you want to hit up Gen Z, and maybe even, you know, a little bit older Tiktok is the place to be now I know a ton of local businesses who are having great success from an awareness standpoint on tick tock, or maybe they’ve gone all in with Instagram and Instagram reels. But the foundation that I find is all of those customers when they want to solve a problem, find a plumber, find a dentist get a massage, I still find that they’re going to Google. So what do you find with your clients?

Joel 5:20
Finding more often than not, they are. Using a lot of awareness campaigns, like for video has always been the most engaging form of content that has been out there. Even Instagram, which has been a highly curated image platform. It’s very, very difficult to go onto Instagram now and find images as the very first thing you hit when you go on Instagram. It’s almost always video. Yes, absolutely. reels have taken over. They have even Facebook. Yeah, look, even Facebook, you’re finding almost always the stories are gonna be the first thing that pop up and the reels. So I think the video is, is really a huge part of spreading the awareness campaign. But I do feel that a lot of people when they want to find out something local, you’re 100%, right, people are going to Google to find the answers that they need.

Barb 6:16
So here’s something interesting that I’m seeing on some of the platforms now tick tock is a video only platform, if you were to post a picture on tick tock the same way people are posting a picture as a real on Instagram, you’re not gonna get a whole heck of a lot of views or plays out of it, because it is just a static image. And people are getting around that on Instagram by saying, you know, okay, Instagram, here’s a, here’s an image as a real now put that in your algorithm. Right. So that’s a very popular concept right now. But when I look at what’s happening, when I get caught up in the reels on Instagram, I usually find that I’m not seeing local content anymore. Yet, when I go on Tik Tok, and I’m flipping through all of the different videos that pop up, I will still see local content. So are you noticing that as well? Or what do you see when you bounce between some of the more popular channels?

Joel 7:17
No, definitely, I see that on Instagram, it seems to be siloed I’ll see a lot more content based on the very first reel that I choose almost every single reel follows suit. And it’s a basically a vein or it’s a theme that follows that initial reel or video that I that I that I watch. But on Tik Tok, it’s all the algorithm is based on definitely on your likes on your previous legs and videos on the type of content. You gotta be very careful the links you click, you have to be careful the videos you watch, because if you go down one rabbit hole, I mean, your video, I actually curate my likes, I actually go into the videos I’ve liked. And I go back and I start unliking videos that watch because I like I have no idea why a watch that I don’t want to see any more of this content. Yeah. And I want to see if I can hack the algorithm to adjust what comes into my flow going forward. Because, yeah, there’s some things that I’m like, I don’t even know why I watched it in the first place. There’s video game content my kids send me like, I don’t need to see a whole bunch of video games for the rest of this month. Exactly what I’m trying to do research for my clients, I don’t see a whole bunch of video game content. Well, I’m looking to see what other teenagers or other teens other sort of young adults are trying to watch and try and get a feel for what Saskatchewan young adults are trying to find to push products out there and see if there’s anything that I can recommend to my clients and what kind of videos they could be producing.

Barb 8:48
Right. So let’s talk. Let’s talk about that production process. So first off, who are you seeing us consume the different platforms? And then what do you counseling your client on in terms of, you know, here’s that the quickest, easiest way to create that video content, because quick picture versus a video, one takes longer.

Joel 9:20
So sorry, right? The organic part of taking a video is extremely important. I think there’s a certain amount of production value that one expects from a larger content creator and people allow that to happen with. But you can’t, how do I put this there’s a cringe factor if you’re not a big account and you’ve amazing production value. So you’re just trying to but you’re just trying to find my views. I’m not gonna watch you. But if you have like 3 million followers and you’ve got a great content, great quality quant content and amazing cameras, then I expect that right? So there’s that Organic kind of shaky camera views that I expect if you’re a smaller account and you’ve got a lot of use, I want that right? The other cringe factor to be aware of when you’re a local company that’s trying to get views is the age of the people in your videos. If you’re an older person like ourselves, and you’re trying to be the main character, you’re, you’re likely not going to, unless you’re going for the cringe factor, you’re likely not going to get any views at all, if you’re trying to be serious in your production value of your product or service. Unless you’re doing like a tongue in cheek, or you’re trying to make fun of yourself. But there has to be authentic. If you’re trying to make fun of yourself. And people can tell it people are like, it’s disingenuous, I’m not going to buy into this exactly, yes, 100% Let’s you’re going to try to make yourself into a meme. And people can tell you’re trying to make yourself a meme. And they’re like, we’re not gonna make you a meme. Like, it’s, it’s a really difficult place tick tock to to try and break into. There’s been a few companies that have successfully done it, but it’s a very tricky place to to win in the social media game.

Barb 11:06
Absolutely. And I think you touched on something really important there. It’s the authenticity, so the authenticity of what you’re doing whatever it is, is so, so important. And so if I look at, uh, you know, my even my own social channels, the simpler the video is, typically, the higher the views, the plays, things like that. So the most simple video I have ever done is just a camera on my keyboard typing. That’s all I did. Five seconds. 8000 views who watched somebody type 1000 times. But they did, because it was so simple.

Joel 11:48
So the algorithm, did they watch it? Probably?

Barb 11:50
Oh, yeah, I know. That’s one thing I’ve never looked at is how many people but because it was so quick, and there was words that came across the screen. So if you watched more than once, right, you had to it was purposeful, that it was very quick. And in fact, I’ve heard that advice from folks, when you’re talking about creating these reels or tiktoks. Purposely have your word go quicker on the screen than somebody can read the first time. So they have to watch it two or three times to see what you had to say. And then they’ll scroll on to the next video.

Joel 12:25
Like, unless you’re doing an instructional video on something popular like, like ramen noodles, or something that’s very, very chic right now to do. And you’re in your own kitchen and you’re in your pajamas or something like people wouldn’t expect. Likely no one’s gonna watch your three minute video, because their attention span is gone. The world’s 32nd Fish goldfish videos yet fortunately,

Barb 12:51
And more or less, even on the Google side, it’s exactly what we see, when we’re teaching our course, we talk a lot about what to expect on your website, if you can get somebody to spend five or 10 minutes on your website, like they are in hook line and sinker. But your resume usually you’re seeing somewhere between one and two minutes. Because 95% of people who go to a website, especially for the first time, they’re not there to buy, they’re there to learn to read to research, see if there’s headings that jump out at them 95% of people, so that’s absolutely huge, right. And the biggest difference I see between social media and Google is social media is serving that customer. What they think the customer wants is based on their algorithm, which is a very complicated formula, I get that. The Google side says, Okay, you searched for x. So we’re gonna serve you x. And the only time that they start to, you know, decide what you should see is if there’s a Google ad that is paid content, or, you know, there’s a bit of a formula that goes into all of the different keywords. But if a local business has the keywords, and the customer has searched for those keywords, Google’s matchmaking service puts those two pieces together so that the customer now chooses what they want to click and what they want to see. So I find that when local customers want to solve that problem, get that plumber over to my house now, because it Sunday in my sewer is backed up, right? Like I’m going to Google and I am finding that first business that comes up and says that they’re open. Are you finding that especially with the younger generation, so let’s say a Gen Z? Are they starting to use Tik Tok and social as a search platform? Are they still using it? As an entertainment platform,

Joel 15:01
I see it still as entertainment. They’re using a lot of getting a lot of lead gen still through Facebook and Instagram, depending Instagram is where a lot more of the Gen Z is being their lead gen from, okay, I’m getting a lot of people moving their businesses on to Instagram, they can do a lot of clock clock cross platform advertising, obviously, because Facebook owns Instagram. So it’s very easy if you have a legacy business on Facebook to just automatically advertise on Facebook, or on Instagram, pardon me. But a lot of newer businesses are just going straight to Instagram and forgetting Facebook now and yes, to attracting that younger demographic and not really worrying about their parents anymore. We have a baby boomer generation that are 1/3 of our business, like 1/3 of our business in our country, that are getting to an age where they’re moving into senior complexes and controlled communities where they’re not going to have that need for plumbing and for furnaces and for home renovations and whatnot. And we’re moving into more of the Gen X our generation and more the Gen Z’s were becoming the homeowners. But there’s a lot more people leaving the rural communities moving to urban communities. So a lot of the smaller towns are dying out. So we’re seeing a lot more dense populations moving to the city, which means a lot more people are starting to build up the note. Yes, absolutely. But that’s still it’s still, what’s really bothers me I think about the whole search thing is we still have a phonebook in Saskatchewan. even get me started. And people are still using the phonebook to search for things. It blows my mind. But rural Saskatchewan still relies on it so much. Yes.

Barb 16:51
And that’s because a lot of our rural businesses are managing their online presence yet. Exactly.

Joel 16:59
Don’t see the value just need a website because it’s just a glorified business card. It’s the only thing it’s for. Yes. They don’t realize that the farmer this driving the half million dollar combine isn’t pulling out the phone book anymore. No, he’s got a GPS driving his combine. And he’s using a smartphone to look up parts. And if you don’t, if he’s not getting it from the part in town, he’s going to the city to get it exactly.

Barb 17:18
When you think when you think about the social platforms, what do you think that let’s just say the number one strength of of each platform is like what’s Tiktok strength? What’s Facebook strength?

Joel 17:33
Mmm hmm. Facebook strength is that has a lot of users, which means it has a powerful lead generation component. There’s a lot of people and because of how detailed they can get into the granular hyper targeting of the amount of money a household uses the amount of likes that that person because of how long Facebook’s been around and they get the nuancing of the likes people have down to a science that you can get very, very granular on your hyper targeting. So I think that’s the strength that Facebook has. Yep, Instagram very much relies on that as well. But I think they also have more of that cliquishness. You get to find people within your niche and you get to find people that are of the same mindset of you. So when you’re looking for customers that want to be of the same thought process of you or have the same region as you Instagram has that powerful back end as well that allows you to find them very easily. That’s what I found with my customers. Tick tock TOC the power there. There’s a lot of opportunity there. But my clients haven’t really fun a lot of ways locally in Saskatchewan to break in it seems to be still heavily entertainment weighted. I know that there’s a lot of us customers and international customers that are making a lot of money off tick tock Yeah, seems to be the creators are making a lot of money off of it. I haven’t heard of a lot of businesses locally in Saskatchewan that are making a ton of cash off it yet

Barb 19:24
Yeah, you know it’s interesting I was in a local business would have been a couple of months ago and they were actually streaming live to both tick tock and Instagram at the same time. So they had two mobile devices set up to record two employees who were doing a call it a presentation. And and it was it was edutainment, right so there was a little bit of education but there was a lot of entertainment involved in what they were doing and myself and let’s just say half a dozen customers were in the store at the time. And I remember thinking a how can they have any kind of decent audio getting picked up but be As a customer I was like, I don’t want to be in the back end your video like no yeah, I didn’t get up and yeah, exactly like

Joel 20:08
Who does it really well locally though for attracting people down because else Cafe on 13th Avenue. Okay. Yeah, I have no cuz it’s just it’s just oh, they have the best doors you have to go try it as soon as the weather’s nice again this spring. Yeah. But it’s just one camera facing the staff as they turn around and they make their goal whip or they make their the Reese’s peanut butter ice creams actually have Reese’s Peanut butter? Peanut butter in the middle of the aisle. Okay, it’s wrapped, wrapped in the butter dust like it’s ridiculous. But all it is, is it the lead generation purpose of TiC tock?

Barb 20:46
Yeah, that’s Yep, so they they do alive for like a couple of minutes

Joel 20:51
Go to the TIC tock, and then they hand it to the customers. So they’re showing the product to the Tiktok every single time plus they engage if someone’s on their newer customers of their so they’re talking to the viewers and encouraging them to come down while they’re engaging with someone. So they leave tick tock to talk to someone. And they’re showing the product. So it’s a great product placement, it’s a great way to engage with customers. Customers don’t have to be shown online. But yeah, it’s they do it really, really smart. And they usually get like 400 Viewers, which is an amazing amount of viewers on tick tock for a live for local Saskatchewan.

Barb 21:25
Exactly. So how many talks are they doing a day, then I just kind of do it.

Joel 21:29
They probably do it probably just in the evening in the summertime to get people who are walking in Cathedral to actually divert their walking path to ELS and they will have literally like 25 people nonstop from five o’clock until nine o’clock when they close down the sidewalk all day long.

Barb 21:47
So, you know, if we look at a business like ours, then so they’ve committed fully to a platform, they’re seeing more sales because of that platform. You know, how does how does a local business get to that place? Because there’s a lot of time and effort and planning and the right staff? If you lose that one staff person who was doing such a great job with tick tock, how do you maintain that? So how do you help a local business through that

Joel 22:23
You need to have an engaged employee, someone who’s got a personality, you need to have someone who’s going to want to be not just staring out the window waiting for someone to walk up. But somebody is going to want to be able to be personable someone who wants to be engaging someone who’s going to be technologically savvy somewhat. You also want to understand that the times when your customers are going to be engaging with the platform. If no one’s online at nine to 11 o’clock in the morning, then don’t be online from nine to 11 in the morning. Wait until seven tonight at night if that’s when your customers are typically going to be on their devices. Even if they’re out for a walk. They may get a notification that else cafes live on Tik Tok click Yep. And then it’s going to be popping up a little sign saying hey, follow us in Tik Tok. If you follow us, you might get a free ice cream cone or some sort of loss leader that you can gain followers. Just little things like that to be aware of, of how you can gain followers and how you can keep them engaged. Look for ways to do giveaways or or you know little things like Hey, make sure you tap that screen to increase the legs because that’s going to push us to your FYP or the for you page. Little things about it’s knowing your platform and the tips and tricks to get more followers or to gain more recognition. Yep. So it’s if you’re going to choose a platform, don’t just choose it and set it and forget it. Right, engage with it, understand it and utilize it.

Barb 23:51
Yes. So do you think a local business or small business? Should they hop on a whole bunch of platforms? Or which platform would they choose nowadays?

Joel 24:02
If all of their customers are on all of their platform, all the platforms and yes choose all platforms? That’s the easy answer. Yeah, no, I would not recommend that. They go on to all the platforms. Now. Let me caveat that with you should choose to capture every platform with your name as if you don’t somebody else will.

Barb 24:27
Exactly, yeah

Joel 24:29
Because it’s the wild west of the internet. And I’ve had many companies that haven’t captured every single like their Google presence, and their Facebook and their Instagram, their Tik Tok or wherever else their Twitter account, and then someone else has gone on and grabbed it. And suddenly they don’t have control of their social real estate. Yes, someone else can be out there yelling from the rooftops that they’re that actual business.

Barb 24:55
Exactly. Yes. I agree. 100% you scary for your brand. Yeah, grab Grab those handles, even if you don’t plan to use the platform in the near term, because you don’t know when your business changes you don’t know when the business sells. So you can’t predict the future. So one of the best ways to just redirect it back to your website or something simple. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just provide a base platform. Absolutely. All right, Joel, it looks like we are running out of time here today. So what I’m hearing is that it is local business, who is the winner of this round. Because here’s our great awareness tool, social media, make more people aware of your business. And we’ve got Google as a excellent platform to help customers when they want to solve a problem when they need the plumber when they need the massage, when they’re looking for local businesses that they want to be able to support. Let’s wrap it up by having you share all of your contact details about socially acceptable marketing.

Joel 25:54
Sure, as you’ve mentioned, my name is Joel Sopp. I’ve been called the Social Media evangelist because I believe in social media so much. You’ve mentioned my company’s Socially Acceptable Marketing, you can reach me director by text at 1-306-531-2751 or the longest email in the world. joel.sopp@sociallyacceptable marketing.ca.

Barb 26:18
Awesome. That is fantastic. You will find all of the details on our website, or on our social channels when this episode goes live. Thank you very much for helping us kick off 2023 With today’s episode, and on that note, if you would like to be a guest on the show, you can email me at barb@abovethefold.live or reach out on our Facebook or Instagram page at Abovethefold.Ca. I’m your host Barb McGrath, Google girl and champion of local businesses. Remember, you worked hard for your success. Don’t keep it a secret. Bye for now.